Six months or so ago, I launched Prana Flow yoga classes with the intention of carrying out a social experiment on value and yoga.
I wanted to know:
If people were allowed to determine the value of a 75 minute yoga class all by themselves, what value would they arrive at?
Here’s the original article: Prana Flow Yoga launches classes where students decide how much to pay.
Now my experiment had some limitations.
Because it was also designed to remove financial barriers to yoga, so that those on a limited income – beneficiaries, students, families – could also come along and pay what they could, I knew the data would be skewed downward somewhat.
This meant their payment wouldn’t necessarily reflect what they thought the class was worth, but what they could afford. However, based on the demographic we’ve had coming through the doors over the last six months or so, people on low incomes probably only represent about 10 – 20% of our sample size, not enough to skew it too significantly.
Before I give you my roughly -collated results, I want you to take a moment to think about what a yoga class is worth to you. See if your number matches my number.
Given that regular practice of yoga has enumerable health benefits – physically, emotionally and mentally.
Given that conducting a class requires planning, room hire, investment in equipment, travel, & study.
Given that a yoga class makes you feel pretty damn good.
How much is it worth?
Well according to the stats from Prana Flow yoga over the last six months (and this is just a rough guess based on the figures – I didn’t actually count up total cash taken and divide it by total attendance)…
…a Yoga class is worth about $5, give or talk a dollar or two.
Or $4 per hour.
About the same as a coffee.
Or half a beer.
Or an hour of parking.
Yep, here in Wellington, on average, a 75 minute yoga class is worth the same to us as having somewhere to leave our car while we go off and meet friends for coffee, or shop.
Is that about what you decided a class was worth to you?
Or is something else at work here?
Do our figures actually tell us something us entirely?
Do we value our yoga far more than that… but are just not putting our money where our dharma is because we don’t have to?
Hell, it’s a donation class right, I can give whatever I feel like giving. And what I choose to give is not based on what I feel the experience was worth to me… but what I can get away with giving.
Shit, that class was worth at least $100 because that’s how damn good it made me feel, but I don’t have to give that much to get that $100 worth of value so why bother?
Now, before I go on, let’s make a couple of things clear.
Teaching via seva (service) is part of Karma Yoga, which means we give of ourselves with no expectations nor attachment to results. You give, whatever comes, comes.
I had no expectations with these classes, and I had no attachments to results. I was curious. And I wanted to teach this way.
Still do.
But part of the process is creating discussion and mindfulness about the way that we channel our energy – and money is just energy.
It’s time to start that discussion. Not because I want more people to pay more so Marianne and I make more.
Nope – couldn’t care less. Although at some stage, when I look at how I am investing the energy in my life and how that energy is flowing back to me, it does make sense to shift from putting energy into places that are stagnant or just a trickle and instead reinvest it into other areas that are flowing. That’s just conscious living.
Nope – I want to have this discussion because the amount of cash per head coming in tells me there is a lack of mindfulness and awareness around money, abundance, energy, scarcity and limitation.
Not all students are present or aware when they place money in the box.
It’s that simple.
Before I talk more about that, I want to talk about the students who are giving abundantly of their energy.
Some students may be dropping in a gold coin and be completely aware and present, and that may represent what they are able to afford that week. Awesome stuff.
Other students consistently leave me $20, and/or rock up with other things like Yogi Tea for Expectant Moms (love it!). Also awesome stuff.
Another of my students regularly gives $5 a class (I think – he may be dropping in more sometimes!) – and he also gives a huge amount of joyful loving energy and has sent me some beautiful texts of thanks that came at the right time. So the total energy he is giving is far more than just that $5.
A couple of other students have turned out to be most excellent ambassadors and regularly bring new people along to class. A beautiful way of expressing how they value class.
See something I likely didn’t make clear when I began this social experiment is teaching by seva doesn’t mean money is the only thing acceptable to give.
Giving of yourself, your time, your baking, or any other thing is also… awesome stuff.
If you decide to come along for five weeks straight, and kick off your five week commitment by dropping in a voucher for a 90 minute massage because you’re a masseuse and 90 minutes of your time is worth five yoga classes – awesome stuff!
That’s how we create abundance in our world.
But with most of our regular students are either giving $5, or $10, or $20 dollars every class, plus their energy in other ways… how the hell does Marianne have a class like Monday?
Something like 18 people and $50 in the box.
At an average of $2.75 per student… what the hell’s going on?
Because it sucks.
Even more so because Marianne had left her house in Paekakariki at 5pm to travel down to Wellington to teach this 7pm class.
Now I know that there is a lot of embarrassment and strange feelings around money. I know people find the whole concept of seva difficult. They’re worried about what they’re putting in. They’re afraid it’s not enough. They’re awkward as they do it. Trust me – I feel the energy. This is especially true of new students. They’re unsure and feel weird. Likely some of them literally avoid putting anything in because it doesn’t make them feel good. They just scoot out the door.
And maybe that’s one of the reasons we end up with a situation like Monday, which happens about once every two weeks or so.
However it doesn’t feel good on our end.
And I’m guessing it doesn’t feel good on the end of the students either.
Marianne and I have talked about our options.
We could just start charging – drop in rates are usually between $12 & $18 per yoga class in Wellington and we’d likely make more money even if we lost some students.
But neither of us wants to do that. We don’t want people to not be able to come because it’s out of their budget.
We could suggest an appropriate level of “payment”, $10/$5 for waged/unwaged type of thing.
But I don’t want to do that either because I don’t want to set any expectations. If we do that, we lose a huge opportunity to address abundance, flow and energy and how we as a community create value amongst ourselves.
So instead this is the first step.
Talking about it.
The classes we’ve started at Pump Dance Studio have created a community – and that community is part of the larger Wellington Yoga Community which is part of New Zealand’s Yoga Community.
And I know the issue of how much a yoga class is worth is something that other yoga studios and teachers also deal with right across New Zealand.
Yoga is not like buying a cup of coffee. It’s not buying a pair of pants or a beer. Yoga is about connection, union, community. The value that yoga creates for our society is huge – physically, emotionally and mentally.
So how do we create communities which value and support the teaching of yoga?
That’s my question.
‘Cos right now, I don’t think we’re doing the best job, and it’s to our collective detriment.
Time to do something about it – and you can start by using the comment box below, sending me an email, letting me know in person… what do you think about all of this?
Whether you’re a teacher or a student… I’d really like to hear from you.
And here’s a chance to put some flow into action…
…use those social media buttons underneath to pass this along to other yoga students and teachers so they too can weigh in on the discussion.
Let’s get all of NZ’s yoga community talking 🙂
Read the follow-up article here: How much is a yoga class worth to you? Part II
Goodness, I am so sorry and so shocked to hear that. Especially seeing as I was at that class on Monday and it was awesome. I’m not sure, outside of setting a price, what can be done about this problem.
That we can set what we can afford to pay is a big reason why I initially started to attend these classes. I am a student and the five dollars I set aside for each class once or twice a week comes straight out of my food money. Is five dollars what the class is worth to me? No. It is worth so much more than that, and I wish I could afford to pay more. The two of you are hands down the best yoga teachers I have ever had. I have done yoga before occasionally, in classes, by myself with a video, and it always felt okay, but it was a purely physical exercise. After just my first class with Kara-Leah, I walked home feeling better about myself than I had in years. My body felt strong and warm and connected, my mind felt content and in control. And it just got better. This class has helped me find the physical and mental discipline to make it one of the most challenging periods in my life. I have thought about writing you this before Kara-Leah, to say thank-you, and I’m sorry it took this to get me off my bum. So both of you, Marianne and Kara-Leah (and Taisuke), thank you so much.
And you are exactly the reason we want to continue to teach like this. We want to be able to reach students like you – because you are mindfully setting aside what you can afford out of your budget.
The value of your comment here and now is also really important. It’s so great to get this kind of feedback and to know we’re on the right track with what we’re teaching.
So thank you, for taking the time to comment and for continuing to come to class despite it being tough on your budget.
Many blessings,
KL
Dear Kara-Leah,
I’m really disappointed and shocked with this outcome…But this remainds me on my times working in hospitlity as a waitres and all the way as a resaturant manager : doing all kinds of functions for guessts and customers,caterings… And one thing showes that PEOPLE ARE GREADY,DISRESPECTFULL,HIPOCRATS for everythings its free off charge.They would eat and eat as long they could not stand or sit just because it’s for FREE. Yes, You DO say ” Thank You for comming tonight,….. and there is a red box with the hole and You can put in as much as You like….” but this doesn’t mean :”Hey,that’s a cool class ,Thank You , but as You said I can put in as much as I like and that’s nothing or some cents ,coins form my pocket”. No it means SOMEBODY WAS HERE TONIGHT AS MY TEACHER ,SOMEBODY GAVE US A SPACE TO COME AND LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT MY SELF ,IT HELPED ME WITH MY STIFF HARNSTRINGS,MY SHOULDERS,MY HIPS,…SOMEBODY THOUGHT ME TO BE A BETTER PERSON TO MY SELF AND TO THE OTHERS,SOMEBODY GAVE ME SOMETHING FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE,SOMEBODY HAS TO PAY THE SPACE,SOMEBODY IS TRAVELING BY THE TRAIN TO COME TO CLASS …SHELL I GO ON? WELL NOTHING FOR NOBADY IS FOR FREE BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN OUR LIVES COSTS MONEY …AND WE DO NOT HAVE RIGHT TO BE DISRESPECTFULL TO NO ONE…I don’t want to hurt anybodys feelings but didn’t we do that allready to the person who gave us a FREE CHOISE to pay as much the class is worth for us??? O yes we did…. So people think what the class is worth for You and show some respect and for joy You have to give up on something and its YOUR CHOISE…..And my depest respect and thank to Kara-Leah and Marianne
Thank you for the time you take to teach. Teaching others is a hard thing to do – time, energy and organization all play a part and the thought that this is not being given back must be a blow.
I have attended only a few classes and enjoyed them greatly. And I chose Prana Flow due to the fact that it was affordable to me. I can’t pay $20. But I can offer what I budget -which is $5 a session. You are offering the oppertunity to learn to those of us who might not otherwise have the option.
I think a $5 minimum wouldn’t be so bad. More if you can…You are giving a session worth more. That is a fact.
KL, thanks for the update on your experiment!! I have wished so much that I could visit NZ and experience it myself. And the results strike close to my heart. What you’ve written here touches me deeply, especially what you’re saying about community.
I have a suggestion that may encourage people to give a little more, if they are truly moved to do so. You may be familiar with the “donation drives” that some charities have, in which they post a goal of a certain amount of money, and let people know as they get closer and closer to the goal? You don’t have to say a word — just put a picture of, say, a thermometer up on the wall, and have the mercury rise as you get closer to the goal. Set the goal high enough that it will cover your expenses for a while, since once you reach your goal, people will probably not donate again for some time. :-). But the point here is that it gives people feedback on what their donation contributes to, you know?… I don’t know how you feel about it, but I think it feels like a good solution to me. What do you feel?
Do a “suggested donation”. If you don’t people will take advantage. They will fill guilty if they can afford to pay the suggested donation and they don’t.
On my last post, I typed it on my I-phone which I am horrible at doing so I am back to elaborate. As I said before, I would go with a “suggested donation”. People will always pay the suggested donation if they have the money. If you leave it up to the person to decide, they will pay whatever they want. Seriously, being totally honest, I am a yoga teacher and I probably wouldn’t pay more then $10 if someone said donation based even if I had an extra $20 in my pocket. I don’t know. It is the mentality that you can get a deal. But, if the sign said, suggested donation $20, then I would pay $20.
A good suggested donation to me would be $10-$15. Make it clear on your website and with your staff that they should call it a donation and let people know that if they don’t have $10 then it is fine.
The reality is that we make money appear if we want something bad enough. If you go over most people’s expenses, even the one’s who say they can only pay $5, you will find that they spent money on discretionary products like coffee, snacks, fancy soaps, movies, cable TV, nail polish, hair dye etc. Most people(there are exceptions) can find $10 for yoga, it just has to be a priority.
Get the figure of $10 in their minds so that when they have a little extra in the budget, they will pay $10 instead feeling it is okay to pay $5 or $0 forever.
Hey all,
Thank you so much for everybody’s feedback – via the comments, plus all the emails I have been getting. It is so lovely to get the community talking like this.
I’m going to do a follow-up post and address what everyone has said, both here in the comments and also in the emails.
Keep ’em coming 🙂
Blessings,
KL
Thank you KL for opening up this topic with so much honesty and love. Thank you to everyone who has commented or emailed with your thoughts. As Kara Leah says, there are many ways to contribute to this yoga community and your comments and attention are an essential part of that. Warmest thanks.
I also teach a free class and have the same challenges. I love it when students reciprocate in kind – bring baked goodies, leave a parting gift, bring a friends, make it a priority in their busy lives to attend weekly, reflect on their yoga experience and share their insights with the class the following week. These are the things that make offering a free, or pay what you can, class is all about. I just wish more of my students would catch this vision of sharing and growing together.
Cookies and treats are cool but you can’t pay your bills with them. I am one of the many yoga teachers who work a day job and teaches as well. Essentialy, I have two jobs. If money was no object, I would definitely accept treats but being able to pay my bills on yoga classes alone would improve my quality of life and would also improve the services I can provide my students.
Hi Kara-Leah,
The concept of offering a yoga class for a donation is a noble one. Unfortunately, in NZ we have no culture of giving or the consumer deciding what a thing is worth. There is no culture of tipping or of bargaining.
When Victoria and I traveled to India, we found that we were terrible at bargaining, because we are used to being told what something is worth and are much more comfortable with that. Also, we think that a donation generally means a gold coin, so don’t equate the request for a donation with the chance to decide what something is really worth.
In NZ we tend to under value anything that is out of the mainstream. From the point of view of me being and old man and traditionalist, it was always the teacher in India who decided what the student would pay. We have all heard the stories of the aspiring student being made to sit on the masters doorstep and starve until he has proved worthy. It was generally then the students job to tend to all the teachers worldly needs. In this day and age that requires the payment of money.
In my classes, I take the approach that I have set the price, but if someone has shown a real desire to practice with me and genuinely can’t pay, I always say “pay what you can afford”. This can mean paying less in cash or an exchange of some sort. My obligation in return for payment is to teach with honesty, compassion and with no ego, and to live what I teach to the best of my ability.
I do agree that you guys teach a beautiful class and you have made it possible for many people to experience yoga who otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford it. Like a previous comment being a student myself, I also rummage around for $5 for a class and there has been times I haven’t come as I haven’t had enough to contribute.
I guess I was a little saddened by some things you said and felt a little negative energy and I think you need to rethink your concept of donation? Is it not a slight contradiction to say you have no expectations but then have issues about what people give?
Thank you so much for everyone who has weighed in here with their perspective. I wanted to take some time to reply now to comments, and then follow up with a post in a few days.
Zanet,
You display so much passion and energy – just like when you come to class. Thank you!
Jim,
So glad our classes mean you can come – exactly one of our intentions.
Jeff,
You raise an interesting idea – but for me it’s not about how much is given, but the energy, understanding and mindfulness about what people choose to contribute.
Shanna,
You raise some great points about what it is we choose to value, and how we spend our money accordingly.
We don’t want to make a suggestion, because it takes away from our intention of getting people to be mindful in their choices and how they spend their energy/money. If there’s suggestion, people don’t have to think at all.
Donna,
Ah yes – there are so many other ways that students do give, and these are wonderful and heartfelt. Cards, yoga magazines, yoga DVD swaps. This is definitely a lovely way of expressing energy and gratitude.
Shanna,
And yes, they don’t necessarily pay the bills, but they can mean less money spent on other stuff. You raise an interesting point about what it takes to teach full time and be able to invest your energy 100% in teaching yoga – definitely something I’d like to address in an article.
Mike,
Great to get your perspective as a teacher. And yes, New Zealand doesn’t really have that tipping/bargaining culture going on. I lived in Canada for a number of years, working as a waitress and learned to really appreciate that system from both sides. I LOVE going out and tipping well for excellent service. It feels fantastic.
Anonymous,
One important point – this is not a donation class. We don’t ask people to “donate” at all. We give them the freedom to decide what the class costs. There is a definite difference in connotation – so thank you for highlighting how easy it is for people to get confused on this point.
You’ve shown me it’s something we need to address for sure – I noticed in quite a few previous comments, people mention “donation”. Yet we never use that word, it’s not on any of our advertising, and I never refer to the class as a donation class.
I have no issues at all about what people are giving. It is what it is. I see this as an experiment in life, and this post for me was like reporting back on collected data. This is what we did. These are the results. What can we infer from it? Are people being mindful and aware as they pay for class? How can we increase this mindfulness and awareness?
My intention in having the discussion is not to encourage people to give more, but to encourage people to be mindful of how their beliefs and attitudes around money, cost, value and yoga. This is actually part of the yoga practice.
Thanks again for everyone who’s weighed in to date. You’ve given me some fabulous feedback and perspective, and a few ideas about how best to proceed from here.
Watch out for the next post in this series.
Namaste,
Kara-Leah
Thank you Karah-Leah and Marianne for your amazing classes which are a joy to attend each week. I too am a student and pay what I can afford each week which often, unfortunatley, is not alot. I can’t wait till next year when I am working and can contribute more to your classes which to me are invaluable!
Hey Anonymous,
Appreciate your feedback, and glad you’re enjoying the classes.
Blessings,
KL
hmmm… perhaps the idea of paying per class comes into question. i pay per class here (brisbane), and usually do 6 classes per week across two studios. however, i would much prefer to pay a set fee per year or semester, and be free to come and go as i need through that period. perhaps your students are thinking, $5 per class is very little and the class is clearly worth more than that to me, but, there are 20 students here, so the teacher is earning $100 per hour….seems a reasonable payment then…
love, ben
Hey Ben,
You raise some great points. The option of a set fee is something we’ve discussed with students. We only teach three classes a week, and students who come to all three tend to work out what they’d like to pay weekly and then spread that payment over the three classes.
Your second point is also a great one. If unlimited funds were available to pay a yoga teacher, what would be a “fair” rate?
Our classes are 75 minutes long, but it’s important to remember that a teacher doesn’t just show up for those 75 minutes. There’s also the 15 minutes either side of class setting up and closing up, including talking to students about their practice. There’s the admin required to run the classes. Time to prep for class – how long does it take to create a playlist and a flow to teach? That playlist and flow can be used more than once, but might take up to 5 hours to prepare, learn and hone.
If one decides that $100/hr is a fair rate for a teacher… you could assume at least 3 hours goes into every class. That’s $300. Divided by 20 students. $15 each – which is about what regular classes charge for drop-in. And what happens when only 5 students show up?
Great to have you stop by 🙂
Blessings,
KL
Suggested donation:Students and unwaged – $5.00 -$10
Everyone else- a price between $15 -$20 suggested donation
Yoga teachers need to set the standard for self respect and being able to pay your rent is one of those standards.
My teacher once told us he Gave Everything he had to learn the yoga, entering the ashram with nothing other than the shirt (having given them everything) on his back and working for it for the next 13 years. I think there is a conflict here between whether the class is for those who can’t afford regular classes and those who can, I understand the idea of an experiment , but unfortunately people do take advantage, those that have not ‘eveolved ‘ enough yet to see what they are doing, or see it and don’t care cause they just saved money.
If you want to purely help others and have the resources to do that, teach for free, donation or suggestion,- on our tt course we were told regardless of your personal circumstances at least cover your costs, or else you are in effect paying to teach. Thats not ahimsa towards yourself.
I would clarify your cost with students and get the good feelings back into the class, they will still love your classes and may feel better about themselves too.
Hari Om
Linsey
Hey Linsey,
Thanks for your input. I’m no longer teaching those classes, but you raise some great points. We certainly learned a lot running the classes in that way – like you said, many people just pay what they can ‘get away with’, because that’s where they’re at right now.
It made me realise the need to put a value on something, because we’re taught to try and get things as cheap as possible, and when there’s no definite value, we’ll always set it as low as we can…
Many blessings,
KL
I agree we have been taught to get things as cheap as possible. I think we have also been taught that the more expensive something is, the better it is, which also isn’t always true.
I like the quote “if your compassion does not include yourself, it is not complete.” To me this is part of charging a certain value for the classes.
I admire what you did and all the principles behind it.
Kind Regards
Linsey