'Pacifica' by Wellington artist Josephine Morey, click image to learn more or buy from her website
There were so many comments and emails that came in form my original post, How much is a yoga class worth to you?, that I wanted to address everything that was raised in a follow-up post.
It’s been fascinating to hear everybody’s point of view, and hear some suggestions about how to handle the payment of classes.
Reading through all of these, it become clear to me where I hadn’t been clear.
First up, these Prana Flow yoga classes are not a ‘donation’ class per se.
I’d been very careful in all our advertising to never refer to the classes as “by donation”. but rather, “students set the cost”. Despite this, most people who responded to the last article referred to the payment as a donation.
Does this matter?
Well, to me, donation implies a gold coin, or putting something toward the cost of a class. It’s not about paying the full cost of a class – and these classes are about exactly that.
Students decide what the class should cost for someone in their financial situation (student, unwaged, working…) So if a waged person decides that a class should cost $5, are they being honest with themselves. i.e. is is truly possible to run yoga classes at a cost of $5 per student?
Second point I’d like to raise is that I wasn’t clear about what I wanted to shift. Most people thought we wanted to work out ways to get people to pay more. However, this is not what we wanted – we wanted to figure out ways in which to make people more mindful of the process, which would have a side effect of creating more flow.
To that end, a lot of the suggestions we had focused on how to get more money, rather than how to give people an experience of mindfulness.
We did have some great suggestions on mindfulness though, included giving new students some introductory information on yoga that included info on what seva is all about. Someone else said the red box was easy to miss on the way out the door, so perhaps providing better signage would help. I liked both of these ideas, and these are things we’re going to do in the New Year.
It’s worth noting that of all the replies I had, only one person reflected that they hadn’t been mindful while paying for class, and this article had opened their eyes.
Thank you for your bravery in bringing up the subject of, ahem, money. (lol)
I agree that many of us have/have had issues/blockages around the flow of abundance including money (Yes myself included).
Thank you for bringing to light that I have been acting unconsciously in regards to the amount of money I drop in the box (yep $5) Now I am not saying this out of guilt, rather I am standing in a place of openness and communication. I see that I have not been giving your classes the energy they deserve and I thank you for bringing this to my attention.
I loved this reply. Why? Because it was honest, the student took responsibility and they understood that I was talking about awareness around abundance.
Many students wrote in to say that they were very grateful for our classes because it meant they could afford to come to yoga, and they’d definitely pay more if they were able to.
This too was lovely to hear, because it means that we’re reaching out to people who perceive they wouldn’t be able to come otherwise. And I say “perceive”, because whenever we truly want something, we have the power to make it happen. No matter what it is. All we need is that burning heart’s desire.
I want to say thank you for the Prana Flow yoga classes, if it wasn’t for your concept of Yoga I wouldn’t of bothered to come to a class, and yoga has made me more relaxed and changed things.
When I was broke and stressed it was your concept that got me to come to class, and now that my debts are clearing I can pay more for class, I pay 5-10 bucks everytime I come, I would never pay less but I would pay more.
It sucks if people are paying less then 5 bucks, because really 5 bucks is crazy cheap anyway.
Yep, $5 is cheap. And many people wrote in saying they pay $5 and that’s all they can afford. But given we’ve been sporadically having averages of less than $5 – like the $2.75 average that inspired the article – where are the people that must have paid less than $5 to create that average?
Because if the students, or unwaged pay $5, and a handful of people are paying $10 and $20… something doesn’t add up on those particular nights. Only one person wrote in who does reflect the less-than-$5 student (at least her friend does). She suggested we look at other ways to fund the class.
I’m ‘unwaged’ and have been paying $10 a class. The girlfriend I brought along recently is also unwaged, she can’t afford that much and gives gold coin. I think she would be happy to pay $5 though.
Or if you want to provide a service to the community, perhaps you could seek funding from council?
However, like I mentioned, it’s not about funding for the class, or the cost for the class.
It’s about our attitudes to money and abundance and value.
Creating classes taught by seva where students set the cost for the class is all about creating mindfulness around money.
It’s taking the teaching of yoga off the mat and asking you to be practicing yoga from the moment you arrive until the moment you leave.
The replies made me realise that I had also been unclear around the difference between value and cost. Most people wrote in to say that regardless of whether they paid $5, $10 or $20 the class had huge value for them.
A yoga class is worth a lot to me. I consider starting yoga is one of my top 3 best decisions of the last 12months.
Value to me is not the same as $ -so I figure whatever I put in the box doesn’t reflect what I gain from the class.
So very true.
I should have been more clear, and talked about, what should a yoga class cost? Rather than, what value does a yoga class have?
‘cos lets face it, yoga rocks and it’s worth in value is huge. But what something costs is generally determined by how many people are contributing towards it, and what is required to deliver it to the consumer.
There is also comparative cost to consider. Many people would put yoga into the same category as the gym, and with their membership base of 1000s, gyms can offer their services for as little as $20/week for unlimited classes. As one student says:
If I were to average out my weekly contributions to your classes I am probably hovering around about the $20 per week mark. Which is only $1 above my weekly gym membership. That in itself makes no sense to me because when I weigh-up what the Prana Flow yoga classes give me – consistently – with what I get out of 2 – 3 visits to the gym a week – there is just no comparison.
I say a word of thanks – almost daily – that I picked up your flyer that day back in late February. I’d be very open to a membership fee – monthly, 3-months, annually etc – perhaps with some discounts on offer to your workshops or additional classes. I’m sure most, if not all, of the other regulars would too.
A few students raised this – the idea of ten-trip concessions or memberships. Part of keeping our costs low is keeping things really simple – having memberships or concessions adds another layer of organisation to the whole process which increases our costs. However, I like the idea of being able to offer regular students discounts to workshops, and that wouldn’t be too hard to work out. So we’ll consider that in the New Year too.
Most concession prices in other studios work out at about $10 – $12 per class, or $25/week (albeit with more classes to choose from). So if you’re one of our regular students, work out for yourself what concession price makes sense to you and then split it over the week.
So where does all of this leave us?
I’m stoked with the level of discussion the article raised. We’ll definitely look at raising awareness around the concept of seva and cost via handing out information to new students and putting signage by our box. Plus I’m going to look at the mind & heart-set of abundance versus the mind & heartset of scarcity in a couple of forthcoming articles.
We live in an inherently abundant world, yet most of our belief systems work on limited resources and scarcity.
Shifting to a life of abundance is not about changing our external circumstances so we have “more”, it’s about shifting our internal experience so we feel how blessed we truly are.
And this starts by first getting clear on what our current attitudes and beliefs are around money.
If you’d like to read more on this subject, here’s a couple of articles I’ve found really useful over the last couple of years.
- Creating Abundance – Video – from Steve Pavlina’s Personal Development Blog
- Selling Salvation: How Much is it Worth? – from Druid Journal
- If Money Was A Person, Who Would Money Be? – from Shift your Spirits. He says that “Lack of money/ lack of abundance in your life has everything to do with your sense of self-worth.”
I don’t know. I just think it is to much to ask for someone to assess the value of your work as payment. We teach people how to treat us. If a person has no clue about what goes into the process of teaching yoga, the benefits of yoga, etc, then they can’t make that decision.
We have to communicate the value to people. My daughter thinks its cool to waste food and break her toys. I have to teach her why these things have value and should be respected. People have to be taught value.
Hey Shanna,
You raise some great points again – about the difference between value and cost, and how we much prefer it when someone just tells us what the cost of a thing is.
And as for value… where does that come from? And how does it differ for each of us? Is it something that we can teach? Or something that each of us has to discover within us?
Lovely to have you stop by.
Blessings,
KL
The conversation with my daugther was not about the cost of the food it was about the time and effort that me and her father put into providing that food.
Value is different from person to person. So if your classes avg around $2 a person because that is the avg value that people are putting into it then, it is what it is. You can’t have it both ways.
This is a highly interesting thread.
My thoughts: KL’s discovery of people’s assumption of ‘ it’s a donation’ is so important.
Presumably the lazy mind rejects the new, difficult and self-responsible concept KL and Marianne are presenting and simply uses the familiar concept ‘donation’.
The very concept of ‘donation’ suggests: “give what isn’t important to you, don’t give what has meaning.” Yuk.
My contribution to this thread is this:
I’m wondering about the ACTUAL STRUCTURE that is provided for payment, and that it might not support ‘doing it consciously’.
# After class, the last thing I want to deal with is money: I’m tired and relaxed. I don’t want to think or count or make decisions. If I have to do so, I’ll minimise or avoid it.
# The ‘red box” – (and I’m assuming, because I havn’t been to the studio) – looks like a donation box. Donations go in such boxes. Ergo, it’s a donation they want.
By contrast:
Think about how this is done in the Christian Church: They pass a collection plate from person to person, And this is done at a certain point in the proceedings, when everyone is assembled.
Now that’s doing it consciously.
I see the plate coming around and have plently of time to consider what I’ll give. When it is my moment, everyone in the room is aware of that, including me.
There is a certain ceremonial quality to it: not casual.
Awareness is demanded by this structure. See what I mean?
What do you lot think of this? KL?
Even when I went to church, Roger, I gave what I thought was expected of me. I didn’t think one iota about the value of the sermon that was just given. On a similar subject,the Bible is very specific on the amount of money to be tithed. Even the God of the Bible felt he had to give people a guideline…lol
Look at how confusing this conversation(previous post included) has been so far for the perticipents. We all had different concepts of what we thought Kara-Leah meant. That is the same confusion her students are facing when they see the red box.
Again, people have to be educated on your concept of value. Until we go to a money-less society or one where money is no object to every one, the concept of value will always be confusing because the average person does think of things in terms of cost even when they are thinking about value.
Hey Roger,
The “big red box” is more like a tool box, with a large round hole carved into the top of it, presided over by a gold Buddha standing on a pile of coins. It’s also big -I have to heft to lift it off the ground.
Plus at the end of class, I usually say something along the lines of “Please bless the Buddha with your offering for the class on you way out.” But not always, it’s easy to forget in the post-class bliss.
I like the idea of increasing the ceremonial nature of it. When we make all of life sacred, we are living in bliss. When I retrieve money after I’ve packed up, I like to say thanks for each note and coin as I collect them, taking a moment to sit in gratitude for whatever has been offered.
Hey Shanna,
What’s the difference in our internal awareness between someone who gives what is expected of them, and someone who gives what feels right to them?
How do we shift from viewing something as a cost or price, to viewing it as an offering freely given?
Hmmm… ’tis truly a fascinating area.
Blessings both,
KL
It will manifest but what is the reality of the present moment?
I really enjoyed Roger’s input. I’ll be giving more thought to the ceremonial dimension now as well.
Shanna, thanks for your thoughts as well. I’ve observed a shift in the degree of awareness about what the act of exchanging money for a yoga class means to people since KL started this discussion so maybe an open discussion is an alternative to or another path of ‘education’, especially when we are all adults. I have personally learned a lot through the discussions, about my own attitudes about money and about wonderful alternatives.
Thanks again KL and everyone who is joining the conversation.
With respect,
Marianne
interesting to read your articles on voluntary pricing for yoga. i’ve been running a yoga studio in athens, ga, usa for the last four years and we have worked ENTIRELY on donations. at first i asked $3-$5. the average that came in was about $3.50. after about three years we had the recession and one month funds were really low… so i decided to ask for $5. that caused the average donation to go up to around $4. i thought it was quite interesting that our numbers are quite similar!
in my studio, students sign in (on a class list) and check a donation catetory ($5-$10, by the month, or other). then they put whatever they like in the slot. so this happens BEFORE class. sometimes i’ve thought that it might be better to have them donate AFTER class, as you do. but i guess i don’t want to spoil the moment with monetary decisions.
Hey Cal,
It must be working for you if you have been running the studio for three or four years?
Things have definitely shifted for us since we initiated the discussion. People seem to have a much clearer idea of what the whole concept is about, and the average has shifted much closer to $10 per student. There’s just an general awareness which is nie to see.
Great to hear how it’s worked for you.
Blessings,
KL
Hi
when I was teaching classes in france in my cold barn, I decided that I didn’t want to charge for my classes. At first everyone was in agreement but after a couple of weeks people started bringing me veggie plants for the garden, vegs, eggs, anything that they had in their household which they thought I could use or sweeties for the children. This ended up being their way of giving back to the class.
However there was one individual who continued to not give back but was the one who always had a point and wanted me to change the class times etc to suit her…… This tainted the experience for me.
However, I loved this way of giving. It was a more loving situation as the veggies, plants and eggs that I was given had been cultivated by them and not shop brought. This was a poor area of france and so many people couldn’t afford a normal class price.
philxxx
Hey Phillipa,
Great to hear of your experience. Thanks for sharing!
KL
Two great articles Kara. Thanks. I have almost the same situation. I say almost because all but one of our classes have set fees. The one class that isn’t a set fee is a donation based class and we did this for two reasons: 1. To welcome people who maybe couldn’t afford the full fee and, 2. To raise money for charity. The money raised from our donation based class all goes to a charity and that charity changes every 10 weeks. I am always conflicted when I count the money raised. We average just under $5 per student. I really want to raise money for and support charities in our community, and I really want to encourage people to give what they can, but I am always left feeling that people don’t value either the yoga (and all the wonderful benefits it provides) or the incredible work our chosen charities are doing for our community. I tend to think that I am being ungrateful and unreasonable expecting more. I think I am also frustrated because I know some of the people who attend actually can afford it be more generous.
But you raised some great points about value. Something I probably need to talk more about.
I don’t realky know the answer but feel good knowing I am not the only one perplexed by this.